Author Topic: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade  (Read 1602 times)

Nightmaster

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Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« on: (12:40:33/01-31-17) »
I got this idea sometime ago (months). The idea was to make a system that once installed into a Mil Spec armor it would increase the reflexes of the user without it be an impant. I know that the impant (wired reflexes) deal with perception, reaction time and muscular response but I think that I have found a way to allow for some external wired reflexes to work. The answer is Sinsense.

Sinsense, if everyone remember, deal with hijacking the user five senses so that he/she could experience sensations, feelings and even time as another person. That same system can be used to give the user the same kind of sensorial input as the cyber impant.

Combining a trode tiara build into the helmet of the armor (or a datajack connector if the user have one) and adding a serie of extra micro servors and sensors to the armor (in the same way that the strenght upgrade does) I think its possible to create a system that would allow a unaugmented individual doning the armor to be able to be as fast as a individual using the implant.

My only problem is that I not sure of the possible quirks or limitations such system would have in game mechanics.

Could any of you guys help me with that idea?

Jack_Spade

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #1 on: (12:55:12/01-31-17) »
What you describe is in essence a hollow drone that you jump in with hot sim, that just happens to contain your body.

And that's why you probably won't find someone investing into that idea: It's much cheaper and safer to have the rigger somewhere else and stick a drone into that milspec armor
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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #2 on: (14:23:18/01-31-17) »
Such a thing wouldn't really have much use, either.  Why not just use the (significantly cheaper, already available) augmentation instead?  If you're Awakened, you wouldn't need the suit--  Magicians and Adepts have ways to improve their reflexes, and they're much more effective than Wired Reflexes.

Compared to a drone, in addition to what Jack Spade said, there's also anthroform drones.  Of course, milspec armor is much more defensive than normal drones...  I swear drones used to be actually a threat, not just the "cheap, we don't really give a shit" version of security.  In 5th edition they altered it so anyone with the easily available Armor Jacket can take a bullet significantly easier than your average security drone.  So this theoretical "milspec armor drone" would have the benefit of being the most powerfully armored drone in existence.
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deathwishjoe

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #3 on: (21:51:55/01-31-17) »
So what your describing is commonly known as power armor.  Its a very small drone with vehicle rules that you can fit inside and control by "jumping into" the vehicle.  I don't know about previous editions from 3rd on back but I remember the bonuses gained from this were thought to be good enough every rigger wanted one since 4rth edition.  the writers have explicitly not provided anything that could be used directly this way for the most part and even provided a fluff reference, I believe in the war supplement book for shadowrun 4rth edition, stating that several companies R&D had been working on such a device for decades now but most of them end up being too slow or so fast they hurt the person inside.  Think Hammer tech trying to recreate the iron man suite early on.  The real reason I suspect is why pay for cybernetic limbs when every player can be iron man and if every player is iron man its not really cyberpunk at that point. 

So on to trying to do what you want to do in game.  If your looking for an essence free bonus to initiative built into the armor try an auto injector.  Jazz plus kamikaze work wonders especially if you have narco gene mod from chrome flesh.  You'll need a reasonable high will and body but generally speaking nothing so high its too difficult  to get.  Generally I'm looking for about 12 dice to resist addiction.  there are a few qualities you can take as well to help with this as well. 

second while you cant use the armor as a base to make a drone/vehicle there are vehicles that can help with this.  just keep in mind the vehicle modding rules are a bit disappointing in this area.  the rigger 5.0 book I believe has the diatsu caterpiller horsemen vehicle.  its can pretty much go any handicapped accessible place and with smart tires can even navigate stairs.  the armor though is pretty low and you may end up buying several as the vehicle gets shot up during runs over the course of a career. 

A third option as Jack_spade mentioned is to put a regular anthro drone in the armor and jump into the drone from a safe location.  your vehicle armor will shoot through the roof making it unlikely you take much damage at all which is really powerful.  The downside to this is that the GM puts the objective in a faradayed caged portion of a secured building preventing outside hackers from being able to get in and now your done is working off of pilot and autosofts and you cant help the team except by keeping the engine warm.  it may never come up but its something that can be done to you. 

Nightmaster

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #4 on: (09:25:12/02-01-17) »
What I was thinking was not even power armor, like Iron Man and the likes. I was thinking more of the cybersuit that several other cyberpunk settings have. If you search you will find several "models" of cybersuits in cyberpunk settings.

A suit that is not armored by itself but offer almost the same benefits of a Wired Reflexes implant.

Not armor.

Not strength.

Just speed.

Now I believe that such system must have some difference if compared to the cyber implant. I just dont know how to rule it (different max speed, dice penalties and etc) and thus my question here.

Hobbes

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #5 on: (10:48:42/02-01-17) »
It's an Armor Mod called "Auto-Injector" and has a staggering array of Combat enhancement available.

If initiative boosting was as easy as Wired Reflexes in a shirt the corps would be all over it.  So would players.

Jack_Spade

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #6 on: (10:52:15/02-01-17) »
Sorry, you can't really have more speed without increasing strength - at least not if you strap a heavy exoskeleton to your body.
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MijRai

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #7 on: (12:37:32/02-01-17) »
Even the Fourth Edition iteration of power armour didn't enhance Reaction.  Only Strength and Agility were options. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Nightmaster

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #8 on: (12:43:00/02-01-17) »
I am not talking about speed as in running speed. I am talking about speed as in reaction speed and number of initiative passes. That is the Wired Reflexes cyber implant and as far I remember this implant dont increase the user strength, only reaction.


What I am trying to do is to create a armor mod that gives the user the same benefits that a Wired Reflexes do. The only thing I am having difficulty is to stabilish a penalty or limitation on the system.

I want that limitation/penalty because I stand that the implant would have better efficiency in the job of increasing the reaction and number of actions of the user than the armor mod.

Hope you guys understand what I am trying to do and give me some ideas.

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #9 on: (13:51:50/02-01-17) »
Think about it: If it was so easy to build that system into armor, why would anyone sacrifice half their essence or more to get the implant?

You could install an autoinjector and fill it with Kamikaze or another Initiative booster, that's the closest you can get.

Of course in your own game you can do what you want.

Jack_Spade

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #10 on: (14:00:32/02-01-17) »
Oh I do understand and I think the others do too.

I'm talking about physics: Reaction improvement means you need less time between sensory input, calculating response and giving orders to your muscles to move accordingly. Since you aren't actually engaging your own muscles but instead the servos in your armor, those need to move the weight of your body as well as the weight of the armor. And not only that, they need to move all of this faster than your own muscles (otherwise there wouldn't be an improvement in reaction) and do this with precision, meaning not only high acceleration but also deceleration.
In other words this armor must be able to generate a higher force (i.e. be stronger) than you too.

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Ghost Rigger

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #11 on: (14:13:38/02-01-17) »
Long story short, Wired Reflexes requires significant modification to the brain and spine that you cannot install externally. Well, you can, but you need a rigger interface to use them and at that point you're not using Wired Reflexes, you're rigging. Also, your meat body is unconscious when using them.

deathwishjoe

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #12 on: (23:04:48/02-01-17) »
Quote
I am not talking about speed as in running speed. I am talking about speed as in reaction speed and number of initiative passes. That is the Wired Reflexes cyber implant and as far I remember this implant dont increase the user strength, only reaction.


What I am trying to do is to create a armor mod that gives the user the same benefits that a Wired Reflexes do. The only thing I am having difficulty is to stabilish a penalty or limitation on the system.

I want that limitation/penalty because I stand that the implant would have better efficiency in the job of increasing the reaction and number of actions of the user than the armor mod.

Hope you guys understand what I am trying to do and give me some ideas.

From a fluff perspective wired reflexes requires an incredibly invasive surgery, as was pointed out, that requires modification to pretty much all major nerves in the persons body.  Simsense or jumping into a drone allows for greater reflexes due to the deep connection a control rig has with various parts of the brain and the lightning fast responses of a drones electronic parts. So if we use simsense to speed up reaction you need an exoskeleton suite with the faster electronic response times. 

Now if you want to create your own fluff of some sort of cyber suit that increases reaction time but still be balanced in game power level wise why not reflavor the drug aspect and say that the experience of using the suit and having technologically enhanced reflexes is addictive.  Like hot sim but more so.  you've got the rules with jazz, cram or kamikaze and an autoinjector.  your just reflavoring the effect to something more along the lines of the theme you want for the technology.   I can certainly see something that speeds up your reaction speed as being highly addictive. 

Hobbes

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #13 on: (10:17:36/02-02-17) »
It's your game, do what you want.  From a game balance perspective Enhanced Initiative is about the most expensive thing in the game for a Character.  It requires either a significant Magical investment or a significant Essence/Nuyen Investment, or a high addiction risk drug boost.

If Wired Reflexes was available without the Essence cost, every character would likely have it, and then use PP, Essence, or Sustains for something else.  Your table do as you will. 

As others have stated, Anthro-form Drones are a thing, and are quite fast.

firebug

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Re: Wired Reflexes as a Mil Spec Armor upgrade
« Reply #14 on: (10:42:11/02-02-17) »
Oh, it's worth mentioning if nobody else has spelled it out clearly.  Whether or not such a thing is physically possible is up in the air in Shadowrun, but from a metagame perspective, such a thing would never be put in the game.

It simply doesn't fit the themes the game presents; "everything has a price".  Cyberware is a major part of Shadowrun; if there was an alternative that didn't have the same kind of drawbacks (or its own, like drugs), it would quickly make augmentation obsolete.  If you read the fluff and narratives, you can understand it a bit better.

Maybe that doesn't matter to you; after all everyone is free to run the setting however they want.  But it would be against the heart of the game in a way.
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