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Author Topic: How do you buy restricted gear?  (Read 1622 times)

PretzelCoatl

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How do you buy restricted gear?
« on: (18:20:24/01-17-17) »
Hello, all,

I apologize if this is answered elsewhere; I can't find any relevant threads because "restricted" is so common. I'm also very sick and can't think well. So yeah, apologies in advance if this is super easy.

Question: I'm trying to figure out how to purchase restricted gear in game, that is, after character creation.

Exposition:
The relevant rules are on, I believe, pages 418 and 419. I would copy paste the text, but there's a lot, and I'm not sure if there are rules on posting that much text... basically, do I need to make that insanely difficult test just to buy nonlethal ammunition? It seems...hard. Stick-n-Shock ammunition has an availability of 6R, meaning I need 18 dice on average or 24 dice to buy hits to be guaranteed to find some. A katana has an availability of 9R, meaning I need 27 or 36! dice! For something I could buy in 2016 off the internet. Is this right? Is there a section I'm missing?

Thank you :)

Jack_Spade

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #1 on: (18:27:29/01-17-17) »
AVA is not a threshold but the number of dice a given piece of gear has as opposing pool to your check.
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Kiirnodel

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #2 on: (18:34:24/01-17-17) »
The Availability is the opposed dice pool, not the threshold.

So using your example, someone looking to get Stick-n-Shock ammo needs to get more hits than the GM rolling 6 dice. So on average, you just need a Negotiation a little higher than the Availability. And even if you have less, you could eventually get lucky after several attempts.

As far as Restricted / Forbidden ratings go, they don't affect the roll to find the gear. It only matters when it comes to getting caught with possession of the item. Which could matter if you glitch the availability test.

PretzelCoatl

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #3 on: (19:23:01/01-17-17) »
Ahhh, I see. Not a threshold. Opposed roll. That makes SO much more sense.


So items with availability "-" can be purchased at Kong Walmart. These are Standard items.

Items with an availability of 1 or higher I do an opposed test: Negotiation + Charisma [Social] against their Availability.

Legal (no letter code, but availability greater than zero), Restricted (r) and Forbidden (f) status has no interaction with purchasability at all? Solely with the possible repercussions?

firebug

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #4 on: (20:55:32/01-17-17) »
Yes.  It's not any harder, mechanically, to get a Avail 6F item than an Avail 6 item.  A good real life comparison is that in many places, drugs (that are completely illegal) are easier to find than say, a totally legal but rather obscure car part.

I also want to add that you don't need to beat the Availability on the opposed role.  A tie still results in finding the item, just with it taking twice as long as listed.  This means that even someone with 2 Negotiation and 3 CHA can have a reasonable chance at finding up to an 8 Availability item, if they get lucky.  If your (or your Contact's) dice pool at least matches the Availability, then it's absolutely within reach to acquire.
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Adamo1618

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #5 on: (12:36:41/01-18-17) »
I've never understood the rules for availability, especially legal items. Considering all the megas want their stuff sold, shouldn't almost every legal item be a few clicks away? Transys Avalon ought to be listed on every search engine out there, instead of me having to go out into the physical market and speak with vendors. Every high-end phone today is still readily available, next to impossible to miss. And I doubt the megas would make it harder to shop in 2075.
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Kincaid

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #6 on: (12:48:31/01-18-17) »
The default assumption is that you're SINless, so getting items, even perfectly legal ones, requires a little more work than heading down to the mall.
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Adamo1618

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #7 on: (13:07:32/01-18-17) »
Among the sample runners in Core, everyone but the decker and the smuggler has a SIN, fake or real. I'd say most runners worthy of the name has one.
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firebug

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #8 on: (13:15:08/01-18-17) »
The default assumption is that you're SINless, so getting items, even perfectly legal ones, requires a little more work than heading down to the mall.

I don't think that quite explains it, since you can be a SINner, and have an air-tight fake SIN that you could be using for such a thing.  Kong Walmart isn't going to run a super-extensive background check to break your R6 SIN.  I doubt they would be able to, considering even a R6  (the best possible rating for SIN checking devices) would be unlikely to catch a R6 SIN most of the time.  So...  Yeah.  The whole point of fake SINs is to be able to use them to do stuff you need to be a SINner to do.

However, considering the responses I've seen from previous writers in the past, that's probably what the official response would be, and the big holes in it wouldn't be explained.
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Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Kiirnodel

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #9 on: (15:21:56/01-18-17) »
I think the only change to the availability rules should be to clarify what part of the test actually involves actually beating feet and looking, and how much of it is just waiting on delivery. Note that it calls the timing interval "delivery time" so Adamo's point of legal items being easily order-able could be perfectly valid. It's just that the item is more likely to be on back-order at higher availability. Just like ordering on the Internet now, not everything is available all the time.

So yeah, it just needs some clarification on how much of the duration for the availability test is the character actually out looking, vs just waiting on delivery.

For downtime in my game, I've been handling item-finding as an all-consuming activity, but maybe it shouldn't be... I've been running it as characters being busy for the whole time of the test interval, but thinking more on the concepts behind it, there should probably be circumstances where that isn't the case.

PretzelCoatl

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #10 on: (20:58:36/01-19-17) »
Thanks, you guys rock! This is MUCH better than the other Shadowrun forum I found. :D

Slipperychicken

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #11 on: (12:50:26/01-20-17) »
The section for buying gear only calls for an availability test when buying off the books (Pg. 418 "To purchase an item off the books, make an Availability Test").

That implies that buying something on the books like a normal person (as opposed to a SINless violent criminal) would not require an availability test. My guess for that process? Just matrix search for at most a few hours, automatically find what you want, decide to buy it, have your SIN checked by a R1-R3 scanner, have your applicable license checked (if it's Restricted), the system ties the purchase to your SIN/License, ownership of the item is transferred to your persona, and the item is delivered to you as per the delivery time table.

In game-terms, I think that the combination of risking your fake SIN and licenses getting burned, along with possibly losing all money on credit accounts associated with that SIN, along with tying the item to the SIN (possibly your real one if you're a SINner), is an appropriate trade-off for skipping an availability test.
« Last Edit: (13:01:18/01-20-17) by Slipperychicken »

Reaver

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #12 on: (13:46:17/01-20-17) »
Yea, Chicken is correct.

You can always buy items as a regular civilian IF you have the right permits for the item in question, AND a SIN (or a good fake!).

But that comes with a datatrail, questions, and possibly Law Enforcement! (If using a fake SIN).

Buying an item that doesn't come with those strings can be a lot harder... hence the availability test.

After all you may have a legal SIN and a firearms permit... but buying 10000 assault rifle ExEx rounds is going to raise eyebrows... best to do that away from prying eyes and snoopy cops :D

And of course some times, some items just are not available in a given area, much like real life.
I live in a large Canadian city, I have the money, yet try as I might  I can not find a porche dealership within 300km of me :(  Nor will they deliver to me :(
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

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Xexanoth

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #13 on: (19:30:07/01-20-17) »
hmmm that's one interpretation of the rules, but taking:
Quote
Availability is an abstract amalgamation of factors like rarity, legality, distribution issues, supply, demand, and so on.
and
Quote
Standard items with no Availability rating can be purchased at your local Kong-WalMart, Stuffer Shack, or Microdeck, or perhaps ordered online or picked up from
a vending machine.

Seem to make it pretty clear that only items without availability can be purchased without having to make a check.
Why else would "no availability" be explizitly stated if everything else could be bough without the checks too, simply by risking a data trail and maybe questions.

Ghost Rigger

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Re: How do you buy restricted gear?
« Reply #14 on: (22:06:08/01-20-17) »
My interpretation is that the data trails are so troublesome that you don't even want to bother with them, to the point that they didn't make any provisions in the rules for bothering with them. And honestly, that makes a bit of sense to me; any good shadowrunner will be buying everything they possibly can with credstick exchanges alone, and it's not just because they don't want a trail in case the SIN gets burned, but in case anyone is keeping an eye on the SIN for any purpose of their own. Whether it's just harmless advertisement or them trying to pin down where you sleep at night, you don't want the corps to get ANYTHING on you.