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Author Topic: Hustling the Mark - Cutting Aces  (Read 412 times)

Nefasine

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Hustling the Mark - Cutting Aces
« on: (10:39:40/12-15-16) »
Page: 154 of Cutting Aces Hustling the Mark:
"Make a Con + Charisma Test with a –6 dice pool modifer (instead of the normal –4 for social maneuvers). If you fail this test, you gain a +2 dice pool modifer on your next Con or Negotiation test against the same target."

So the worse you are at conning someone (mechanically) the better you are?
I'm having trouble articulating how much this is wrong.
Why would anyone who is bad at con not take this action before trying to con someone?
What happens if you pass the test? you don't pretend to lose?
The world is as I say it is

KatoHearts

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Re: Hustling the Mark - Cutting Aces
« Reply #1 on: (13:04:48/12-15-16) »
Just flip fail to pass and everything makes sense again.

Finstersang

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Re: Hustling the Mark - Cutting Aces
« Reply #2 on: (16:54:47/12-15-16) »
I think itīs meant to be some kind of "Social Feint", so I can see where this idea of "failing to get a bonus later" comes from. However, because itīs still a voluntary and false fail, this really doesnīt make sense once you think it through. Itīs basically a kind of elaborated con, so why should you profit from having a low dice pool?

Unless...
Well, there might a another way to read this: Itīs not clearly what happens if you win the test. If you interpret this as "Achieve whatever your con would normally achieve", this makes a a little bit more of a sense:

First, you make a con attempt thatīs voluntarily bad and likely to see through, thus the higher modifier of -6.
If you still manage to succeed, kudos to you. Your mark is convinced of your sloppy lie.
However, if you donīt succeed, your target is now in the false belief of being able to see through you, making it prone to your next attempt.
But at least we got fearies n' shit... *cough*

Kiirnodel

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Re: Hustling the Mark - Cutting Aces
« Reply #3 on: (17:54:33/12-15-16) »
Unless...
Well, there might a another way to read this: Itīs not clearly what happens if you win the test. If you interpret this as "Achieve whatever your con would normally achieve", this makes a a little bit more of a sense:

First, you make a con attempt thatīs voluntarily bad and likely to see through, thus the higher modifier of -6.
If you still manage to succeed, kudos to you. Your mark is convinced of your sloppy lie.
However, if you donīt succeed, your target is now in the false belief of being able to see through you, making it prone to your next attempt.

I haven't read into Cutting Aces yet, so I'm just going off of what has been shared so far. Maybe it has something to do with the "social maneuvers" that it mentions giving a normal -4? But with the way Finstersang just explained it, it makes some good sense.

If I had to make a guess, do social maneuvers add extra effects to social tests? If so, a good assumption would be that they cause these effects in addition to the normal effects of the social test. For example, failing this Con to "Hustle the Mark" still means they see through your Con attempt, cue effects of failing that test. But because you were setting yourself up for failure, as Finstersang pointed out, they are now underestimating you, giving a bonus on future rolls. But in the mean time, you still have to deal with the fact that they know you just tried lying to them, which isn't always going to work out in your favor, even if you get a bonus on future attempts.

KatoHearts

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Re: Hustling the Mark - Cutting Aces
« Reply #4 on: (18:29:39/12-15-16) »
As your dice in con increase your ability to successfully hustle someone decreases. Call me crazy but that's EXCEEDINGLY IDIOTIC. Next, it's effectively free if you assume you have to lose as the -6 penalty is no longer a penalty. What's more Hustling isn't losing because anybody can lose. Hustling is putting on a show, doing your absolute best to win only to lose out in the end. It's making your opponent more confident, absolutely sure that they can win out against you again and again, making them willing to bet it all because they can't possibly lose.

Then you remind them that they very well can.

Stoneglobe

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Re: Hustling the Mark - Cutting Aces
« Reply #5 on: (03:49:45/12-18-16) »
Agree that this is incorrect. If you change it to read "If you pass this test, you fail at whatever action you were currently attempting (as intended), but gain a +2 dice pool modifier on your next Con or Negotiation test against the same target."

That then makes everything work the way I see it being intended to.
īWonderfulī, the Flatline said,īI never did like to do anything simple when I could do it ass-backwards.ī - William Gibson, Neuromancer

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Fabe

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Re: Hustling the Mark - Cutting Aces
« Reply #6 on: (01:28:56/12-19-16) »
 I think I understand what "hustling the mark" is suppose to be doing . It's like the old bit we've seen in on TV and in movies where a character pretends to be less skilled at pool for example by deliberately losing just before challenging the mark   to a friendly game for a few dollars a ball. The next thing the target know they owe  quite a bit of cash.  But yeah to me the mechanics do seem a bit odd. Passing the test to gain a bonus like Stoneglobe described makes more sense.
 
  Pass the Huslting the mark test: You convince the mark you barely know what end of the pool cue to hold

  Fail the test: you make to too obvious that you were  deliberately  missing your shots on and the mark sees right thought you.
 
« Last Edit: (01:33:19/12-19-16) by Fabe »

 

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