Author Topic: Upcoming Shadowrun releases  (Read 142301 times)

Prime Mover

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #930 on: (18:27:37/03-12-17) »
Been an advanced magic book in works since artifact campaign.  Still missing some magic info from past editions and if this opens up this edition to something new and interesting I'm all for it.  While never been fan of Technomancers I certainly can understand the need for at very least some cleaning up and basic info returned to this edition.  afaik The techno book is still coming but it hit a speed bumps.  Didn't they lose a writer or two early in process?  Seeing some State of the Art books in future to cover all aspects of the game would a nice addition as well.
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PMárk

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #931 on: (18:45:45/03-12-17) »
Mage books: 3

I thought it was only Street Grimoire. What I missed? Court of Shadows?

There is the followup magic book Shadow Spells

Ah, okay, I didn't count the small pdfs, only the hardcovers. Although there are pdfs, like that on a lot of other topics, besides magic, so I don' think magic got exceptional treatment in that regard.

 Also, I could understand too the technomancer fans' gripe not getting a book at all, while everyone else got it. But look at it that way: the majority of the books aren't for magic, magic got as much coverage as, for example guns.

How magic focused were the campaign/plot books so far, or the Missions?
« Last Edit: (18:54:37/03-12-17) by PMárk »

Mirikon

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #932 on: (22:39:02/03-12-17) »
At this point, I want 6th edition to hurry up and get here.
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Kiirnodel

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #933 on: (23:00:00/03-12-17) »
At this point, I want 6th edition to hurry up and get here.

I don't see wishing for a 6th edition as even remotely productive at this moment.

Unless there is some sort of change in company policy/procedure/licensing, wishing for the next edition isn't going to change anything. Particularly when it comes to the way source-books are balanced, coming in with the complaint that "there are way too many mage books compared to technomancer books, we should just start over on 6th edition" is like saying that your sandwich doesn't have enough mayo so you should throw it away and make a new one.

There's plenty of good stuff when it comes to 5th edition, and there are definitely places where there have been good improvements in the way the rules are worked out from how they were in 4th edition. Yes, there are some things where rules are muddled, and has room for improvement. And there are plenty of concepts where it seems like logical assumptions were made using rules from 4th edition, but the basis for that rule hasn't been brought forward yet.

Part of the reason there was a bit of a rough transition from 4th to 5th is because there were a lot of books that started production back in 4th edition. All the books that were dual-statted for both 4th and 5th are books that were so far along that they already had the full rules work-up for 4th edition. When they released 5th edition, those books were stuck back in the fire to update them for 5th edition rules also. And those were just the books far enough along to do that. Think about how long after 5th released that those books were coming out. Wishing for 6th edition to come now, is like asking the entire crew to throw away all the work that's been done so far and start over.

I'm not saying that improvements can't be made, I just think that the changes need to happen first with how things are organized. Having a better handle on how the rules are organized so that things are more coherent. Once the production structure is improved, then corrections can be made to the base rules. I think correcting what is already out there is a better track than just starting from scratch.

Mirikon

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #934 on: (00:39:25/03-13-17) »
Because some of the problems are so bad, like what happened with Technomancers, that only a ground up rewrite can fix them. Tabula rasa, and while you're at it, maybe dial back the nostalgia for nostalgia's sake stuff, with the new(old) matrix, the return of priorities, and finally slaughtering the sacred cow that is the way the Karma system works. Oh, and change up the writing style to be more like what it was in pretty much all the older books, where the fluff and crunch were separated into 'in character' and 'out of character' sections. That's a stylistic choice I was disappointed to see with this edition, and could benefit from, as you say, throwing everything out and starting over.

When you have a lemon of a vehicle, do you keep taking it to the shop every couple months, or do you cut your losses and get a new car?

The sad thing is that I love the Shadowrun universe, and the current plots are, for the most part, awesome as hell. But from the start this edition has been plagued with trouble, and maybe it is time to just send it to join D&D 4th edition.
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Sphinx

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #935 on: (02:02:53/03-13-17) »
First Edition: 1989, lasted 3 years
Second Edition: 1992, lasted 6 years
Third Edition: 1998, lasted 7 years
Fourth Edition: 2005, lasted 8 years
Fifth Edition: 2013, 4 years and counting ...

Personally, I hope we get another five years out of this edition before hitting the reset button again.

Ragnarok

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #936 on: (23:55:41/03-13-17) »
August 17th would be the perfect date to reveal a 6th Edition (Great Ghost Dance, anyone?).
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Patrick Goodman

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #937 on: (01:19:57/03-14-17) »
It's not happening.
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Marzhin

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #938 on: (06:02:53/03-14-17) »
I still believe we'll have "SR5 30th Anniversary Edition" in 2019, way before we get a 6th Edition.
But then again I'm one of the weirdoes who actually enjoy 5th Edition very much :)
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Reaver

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #939 on: (14:46:58/03-14-17) »
I still believe we'll have "SR5 30th Anniversary Edition" in 2019, way before we get a 6th Edition.
But then again I'm one of the weirdoes who actually enjoy 5th Edition very much :)

For me, there are parts that I very much enjoy. Parts that I can see what they were attempting.. but failed to do so correctly. And stuff I down right hate.

Now, the stuff I hate has been discussed, addressed, and its time to move on from.

The Parts that I think were poorly implemented, are seeing improvement book to book, so that is something.


As to Technomancers.... Nuke them from orbit. Only way to be sure.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

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Finstersang

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #940 on: (13:48:02/03-18-17) »
As to Technomancers.... Nuke them from orbit. Only way to be sure.

The Archetype is not that rotten in SR5. Adding more parallels to mages was a good idea, for instance. However the numbers (especially the pre-errata Fading values) are off and the current range of special features is too narrow and unimaginative. But this could actually be fixed with a decent sourcebook and some errata.

Unless you donīt like Technomancers, that is. But personally, I think the idea of "Tech-Wizzards" as an additional Matrix Archetype is quite promising, as long as you put some creative effort in it. Which hasnīt been done so far in this edition... :/ 
But at least we got fearies n' shit... *cough*

Mirikon

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #941 on: (11:08:40/03-20-17) »
Except that TMs aren't pallet-swapped Mages for the digital world! They never were supposed to be! They were the 'Swiss Army Knives of the Matrix'! Don't compare them to mages, compare them to Deckers and Riggers.

In 4E, a TM was a glass cannon. You had high burst-power, with threading high-level complex forms, and could adapt to situations on the fly, but since you took all Matrix damage and Fading from your Threading and Compiling straight to your brain, you could get yourself wrecked. Plus, any of your abilities in the meat would be, shall we say, sub-par, since you didn't have any access to realspace initiative boosters until you had at least two submersions under your belt, so you were looking at only a single pass in the meat-world, which severely limited your ability to help the team if combat started, unless you were a TM Rigger. And yeah, TMs could be riggers from start, without having to drop submersions on it. They were actually pretty good at it, too, and there was an entire stream devoted to it.

On the flip side, Hackers and Riggers were more reliable. Yes, they didn't have the ability to adapt on the fly in the Matrix like a TM did, but they could take more abuse, and were less likely to get themselves crippled for the rest of the run by botching a roll early on and taking half their matrix condition bar in damage trying to send an agent to do something for them. More importantly, because they weren't as Essence-dependent as TMs were, they could get ware that helped them be more of a threat in the meat, as well. Even if it was just first-level Wired Reflexes, that kind of thing makes a big difference when you're in a firefight and avoiding a severe case of lead poisoning in the Barrens trumps doing matrix searches to find out who sent these gangers to kill your team.

Fast forward to 5E, and TMs got raped up the ass by a troll with a sandpaper condom. That's really the most politely I can put it. The balance between adaptability and reliability is gone. Deckers and Riggers are both more adaptable than TMs, able to shift their attributes around on the fly, and load up different programs to suit the situation as they see fit, and they remain more reliable, still being able to take more abuse, and being able to do more in the meat as well as doing more in the Matrix. TMs keep all their old disadvantages, lose their adaptability, lose access to the Rigging aspect entirely unless they drop Submersions on it, and the fact that they can't form a PAN means they can't even secure their own damn gear, much less help their team on matrix defense. A TM who actually submerges and gets to Rig won't be able to actually control multiple drones like a Rigger with their RCC, and can't secure their own drones unless they're jumped in. And because you can no longer hack from the secure van, or some other safe space, the weaknesses when they are in the meat are even more pronounced.

The only path that produces results anywhere close to what a Decker or Rigger can do is if you play a TM as a pet class, go all in on Compiling, and have your Sprites do everything for you.


So yes, the archetype really did get that rotten in 5E.
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Crimsondude

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #942 on: (13:11:59/03-20-17) »
I miss Otaku, which are at best as similar to Technomancers as Deckers are to Riggers.


Personally, and I do mean personally, I think the SR4 "Glass Cannon" concept was great in that they were basically something that had never existed trying to find their place in both worlds. The Matrix of SR5 also happens to be one designed to actively hinder if not outright harm Technomancers. I think it's unfortunate in many ways that their countermeasures haven't evolved as rapidly as basic technology, but I'm just one dude who has limited time to even contribute ideas to the people actually writing the rules.
« Last Edit: (13:27:47/03-20-17) by Crimsondude »

Neojudas

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #943 on: (01:06:34/05-10-17) »
I admit, I have my ongoing disagreements with the course of Shadowrun 5E and it's book/title releases.  I've worked and reverse engineered the spells in all the sourcebooks so far, and it's fairly evident there is more than a bit hand waving in places.  I do agree that Technomancers have also recieved a shorter stick than say 4th Ed TMs or even 3E Otaku, but lots of house rules to expand flavor help with that (Companion Sprites anyone?).

I like the Interrupt Action concept greatly, and have found the faster characters in our games here use that system for Party defense repeatedly.  I also enjoy the Martial Arts mechanics, a good compromise from past options.  BUT it has become annoying to see how obviously heavy it is for, as one player in my games here refers to it, "special attribute" characters just don't have the same ceiling limits as mundane types do.  It is time I feel to unlock the chain or normality some.

I also believe the structure of the books and their cross referencing between titles, while necessary, has started the path of pain some time ago.

And lastly, while a blunt Timeline System placed onto the main product website would *REALLY* go a long way towards helping GMs and Players coordinate what is happening and when overall.
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Finstersang

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Re: Upcoming Shadowrun releases
« Reply #944 on: (08:03:55/05-17-17) »
The only way a rush to the sixth edition would help is when catalyst sells the franchise to the germans first.

Seriously: If you are lucky enough to understand german, look at the the stuff the good people of Pegasus are putting out with - presumably - a lot less manpower. Not just the translated core books with additional art, errata and improved balancing, but also the original content like Datapuls ADL  - Now thatīs how you do a fluff book! With actual engaging plot hooks and not just annoying chat ramblings about miniscule bullshit!

On a totally unrelated note: Is Amy still on the TM book? Or anybody at all?
« Last Edit: (08:05:58/05-17-17) by Finstersang »
But at least we got fearies n' shit... *cough*