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Author Topic: Lockpicking  (Read 2335 times)

rodimus93

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Lockpicking
« on: (19:56:37/05-04-16) »
So I'm new to the system and such so sorry for the newb question. Per the Errata it states that lockpicking is not a skill in SR5, if thats so what skill do you use to pick locks both mechanical and electrical.

Also is its not a skill do when know why its listen on herolab.

Hobbes

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #1 on: (21:38:29/05-04-16) »
Locksmith is the skill you want.  And a Locksmith toolkit. 

Herr Brackhaus

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #2 on: (21:58:58/05-04-16) »
Locksmith toolkit may or may not be needed, depending on table and GM interpretation.

The only direct reference RAW makes to tools is for transponder keys, where you need a hardware toolkit of all things. Other than that, a lockpick set is presumably also suitable.

And if you're picking manual locks, you can make do with just an autopicker.

In short, the actual rules are vague on what you need to use the Locksmith skill; a toolkit isn't a bad idea, but it isn't actually referenced anywhere.

adzling

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #3 on: (22:04:51/05-04-16) »
Lock pick set and auto picker are for old school key locks.
Locksmith kits for everything else.
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Hobbes

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #4 on: (10:37:58/05-05-16) »
I take the easy RAW interpretation, Locksmith is a Technical Skill, Technical Skills need Tool Kits, therefore Locksmith needs a Tool Kit.  All the other things provide buffs of some kind.  I'm real fuzzy on if Lockpicks are needed in addition to the Tool Kit, or if they're just a hold over on the gear lists from when (mechanical) Lockpicking was it's own skill.  GM interpretation may vary I suppose. 

adzling

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #5 on: (11:01:54/05-05-16) »
You can't lockpick or autopicker on a maglock, but you can use them on a mechanical lock.

You can use a Locksmith kit on a mechanical lock, and on a maglock casing (or other locksmith challenge).
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Herr Brackhaus

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #6 on: (11:26:53/05-05-16) »
And that's your interpretation, adzling, nothing more. The rules don't state canonically either way, so we have to interpret them as best we can.

adzling

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #7 on: (11:33:57/05-05-16) »
well considering the dictionary definition of "lockpick" (and what lockpick sets are comprised of) then yeah it's right.

otherwise you could "pick" a maglock with some probes and pin-depressers????

Without the locksmith kit you have nothing to attack non-mechanical locks with.

So while you may think it's "my interpretation" it's pretty much the only reasonable one given, you know, the meaning of words and stuff.

This may help you divine the difference between "lockpicking" and "locksmithing" (hint: lockpicking is a specialized sub-set of locksmithing. I would allow a "lockpick" specializaiton of "locksmith" in Srun).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_picking
« Last Edit: (11:41:15/05-05-16) by adzling »
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Herr Brackhaus

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #8 on: (11:40:52/05-05-16) »
I disagree that your opinion is the "only reasonable one given". I'd expect a lockpick set to contain the tools needed to pick locks. That includes both maglocks and mechanical locks. No separate Locksmith tool kit needed.

I base this interpretation on two separate lines from the rules.
Quote from: SR5 p443
Building and repairing items requires the right tools for the job.

Bypassing a lock is arguably neither building nor repairing.

Quote from: SR5 p448
They are necessary tools for picking locks.

Again, that's just my interpretation; not saying yours is wrong, just that it is "just" your opinion and not RAW because RAW is lacking.

adzling

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #9 on: (11:43:02/05-05-16) »
you are ignoring what "picking a lock" means completely.

it's impossible to pick any non-mechanical lock.

that's why the rules have explicit entries for maglocks etc. that DO NOT use lockpick but rather passkeys, encoders etc.
the locksmith kit is required to get the casing off the maglock for example.

Please go read the dictionary/ link to wikipedia I posted.

thanks for playing
« Last Edit: (11:46:58/05-05-16) by adzling »
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Herr Brackhaus

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #10 on: (11:51:19/05-05-16) »
The Locksmith skill is required to open a maglock casing. The only time page 359 or 360 references a toolkit is under transponder keys, which require a Hardware toolkit.

Relevant passages:
Quote from: Maglocks
The first step to bypassing a maglock is to remove the case and access the maglock’s electronic guts. This requires a successful Locksmith + Agility [Physical] (Maglock Rating x 2, 1 Combat Turn) Extended Test.

Quote from: Maglocks
Some maglock systems come equipped with anti-tamper systems, rated between 1 and 4. In order to bypass the anti-tamper circuits, an additional Locksmith + Agility [Physical] (anti-tamper system rating) Test must be made.

Quote from: Keypads
This means cracking open the case (see above) and then rewiring the circuits—another Locksmith + Agility [Physical] (Maglock Rating x 2, 1 Combat Turn) Extended Test.

Quote from: Cardreaders
They can be defeated using the same method as for keypads—by removing the case and tampering with the works.

Since you've decided to take on an agressive tone, I'm out.
« Last Edit: (11:54:33/05-05-16) by Herr Brackhaus »

adzling

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #11 on: (12:09:15/05-05-16) »
Sometimes you have to use common sense in combination with the rules as we all know they are often poorly defined.

This does not mean you get to avoid the actual meaning/ definition of "lockpicking" vs. "locksmithing".

This is the equivalent of using a car jack to change a wheel (specific, specialized task similar to lockpicking a mechanical lock) vs. having a complete mechanics toolkit allowing you to not only change the tire but also perform all kinds of other tasks on the car as well.

You can choose to ignore the what a "lockpick" is and avoid the definition of "lockpicking" but that does not make your interpretation correct.
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Hobbes

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #12 on: (12:58:59/05-05-16) »
Ultimately you're talking about a couple hundred Nuyen worth of gear, so unless you're a Resources E character it's likely a trivial expense.

There are, effectively, three interpretations.

Lowest cost, Lockpicks work for all Locksmith tests - 200 Nuyen IIRC
Middle ground, Locksmith Tool kit required for Locksmith Tests - 500 Nuyen IIRC
Highest cost, you need both Lock Picks and Locksmith Tool Kit to cover all locks, 700 Nuyen for both.

I can honestly see arguments for any of them.  Personally I feel that the Gear list didn't get updated with the Skill changes and Lockpicks should get tossed, but that's me. 

adzling

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #13 on: (15:26:01/05-05-16) »
true dat.

Ultimately you're talking about a couple hundred Nuyen worth of gear, so unless you're a Resources E character it's likely a trivial expense.
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Sendaz

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Re: Lockpicking
« Reply #14 on: (17:28:18/05-05-16) »

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