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A few clarifications if you would be so kind

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Uncle Vabka

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« on: <01-05-11/1100:49> »
Hi all,

Converting and old character of mine to SR4. He is an aspected conjurer. The GM wants two versions - one using the conversion rules in the pdq, another using 450 BP + accumulated karma.

A couple of questions due to my relative inexperience with actually playing SR4 (have most of the books and read them through a few times).

1) Sustaining Foci

Is it possible for someone else to cast the spell sustained by a sustaning focus? The reason I am asking is more long term than character creation - I am going to pretty much save the next 140 or so Karma for an ally spirit and wondered if it would be better to have him learn Increase Reflexes (and some other goodies) and cast it on sustaining foci which my character has bonded.

2) Ally Spells

Speaking of Ally spells, if, as an aspected conjurer, I want my ally to leanr spells, the cost is as far as I can tell is that of a spell firmula worked into the ritual + 5 karma - am I right about this? For that matter, can an ally cast spells if its summoner cannot?

3) The Aspected Magician NQ

This seems massively inhibiting RAW. Why should an aspected conjurer lose 5 dice from his assenssing pool? Surely it would make sense for him to be able to identify astral forms and auras in his work as a specialist conjurer. Despite the original character being an aspected magician, I am heavily leaning towards not taking this NQ and just not spending any points on sorcer or spells. Is this something that you would advise?

4) Traidtion

The old character was a hermetic conjurer. The backstory though has him as an ex-Sylvestrine excorcist - street name is Damon Frockt ((d. Frockt - get it?). This makes me want to rebuild him as a Christian Theurge, but I am not overly thrilled with having CHR as a drain attribute - would you suggest I just stick with Hermticism? Would you say that all RCC sanctioned Churhc mages aricians are Christian Theurges? In some ways, I would more see that sort of tradition being part of the more evangellical denominations, or certain branches of the RCC - the stodgy scientisfic Hermetic approach just seems more common sense to me in some ways. I supposse it could depend on where he received his education - brought up in the Churhc and thus a Theurge, or heard his calling after awakening and already beginning to walk the Hermetic path.

Thanks for your time.

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #1 on: <01-05-11/1135:30> »
To try and answer some of your questions as per my understanding of the rules

1) I would say that the spell has to be cast by the master of the focus or the one who is paying the karma to sustain the spell. Since you cannot spend karma on any roll that isn't your own I would say you couldn't have an ally or anyone else cast the spell into the focus and then bond it to yourself.
Now your ally could cast the spell into a sustaining focus and pay the karma to bond it and let you use it

2) Ally spells cost 3 karma for any spell you know. 5 for ones you don't (and you need the formula)

3) The aspecting is much more limiting in SR4 so it makes since to me

4) Tradition is what you want it to be. I could see either working from what you wrote
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Mäx

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« Reply #2 on: <01-05-11/1426:55> »
3) The Aspected Magician NQ

This seems massively inhibiting RAW. Why should an aspected conjurer lose 5 dice from his assenssing pool? Surely it would make sense for him to be able to identify astral forms and auras in his work as a specialist conjurer. Despite the original character being an aspected magician, I am heavily leaning towards not taking this NQ and just not spending any points on sorcer or spells. Is this something that you would advise?
Aspected Magician is one of those "Utter Crap" qualities that there are a few in SR4, so i would advice to just replace it with incompetent (spellcasting) and incompetent (ritual spellcasting) qualities.
That gives you the kind of character you want(Conjurer who cant cast spells) and more build points, with out any unwanted negatives.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

joe15552

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« Reply #3 on: <01-05-11/1451:34> »
I'm not super knowledgeable, but I can definitely help you with question number one.

pg. 199 of SR4 20th edition under "Foci" says that "a focus must be bonded to its owner before it can be used." Then in the next paragraph, it states that "only one person may bond a focus at a time, and only that person can use it." I would take that to mean that an ally spirit cannot use a foci bound to its conjuring mage.

Now, I may be fickle, but I would say that a focus must exist in the physical realm on the physical body of a person in order for them to use it in either physical or astral form. I'd say that spirits have no use for foci because they have no physical body.

But, maybe you can talk to your GM about some variation on foci so your spirit can have the equivalent to bound foci.

Mmm... on second thought, not sure why spirits would need sustaining foci. I don't think they have the -2 for sustaining a spell that they cast themselves.
« Last Edit: <01-05-11/1455:00> by joe15552 »

Uncle Vabka

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« Reply #4 on: <01-05-11/1621:29> »
Thanks for the replies thus far guys.

To clarify, the Conjurer would be bonding the foci and the spirit would be casting IR on it. I am basically looking at a non-tech way for my non-spellcasting conjurer to get more than one IP.

joe15552

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« Reply #5 on: <01-05-11/1748:07> »
Uncle: You can't cast through a foci unless you are the one that bonded to it.

Let me think here... If you could take at least one spell (improved reflexes), then summon a spirit of man that has improved reflexes as an optional power, then I believe he could cast that on you, and there would be no penalties for anyone... unless of course he didn't soak the drain very well.

Mäx

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« Reply #6 on: <01-05-11/1749:41> »
Thanks for the replies thus far guys.

To clarify, the Conjurer would be bonding the foci and the spirit would be casting IR on it. I am basically looking at a non-tech way for my non-spellcasting conjurer to get more than one IP.
Well you could make the character mystic adept and devote 2 or 3 points of magic for adept side to get improved reflexes 1(1,5PP) or 2(2,5PP) or just 1 magic and take the living focus power, allowing you to sustain one spell cast on you.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #7 on: <01-05-11/2346:36> »
The living focus power still gives you the minus as if you were sustaining it unless I am mistaken. I looked at that workaround once and decided it wasn't going to work.
Just because you are an aspected conjurer doesn't mean you cannot have a spell or two and take the Increased reflexes and then use a sustaining focus
"Walking through walls isn't tough..... if you know where the doors are."
"It's not being seen that is the trick."

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Glyph

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« Reply #8 on: <01-06-11/0056:56> »
Honestly, since aspected magicians have been nerfed so much, why bother?  It is not a viable choice any more, like it was in SR3.

Simply make a mage who has conjuring as his primary focus, but has, perhaps, spellcasting: 3, so he can use a few utility spells.

Nomad Zophiel

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« Reply #9 on: <01-06-11/0428:25> »
The living focus power still gives you the minus as if you were sustaining it unless I am mistaken. I looked at that workaround once and decided it wasn't going to work.
Just because you are an aspected conjurer doesn't mean you cannot have a spell or two and take the Increased reflexes and then use a sustaining focus

I still wonder at the reprocussions of using a Sustaining Focus with the Living Focus power. It seems like something that might work but I wonder if it would be unbalancing somehow.

Uncle Vabka

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« Reply #10 on: <01-06-11/0509:54> »
Thanks again for all of that guys. Seems like a conjuring orientated mage, possibly with high counterspelling, but with a couple of utility spells as well (strictly in character though) would be a nice re-build of the concept. Thanks.