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Vehicle combat: Area Effect, Ramming and Autofire

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AMP

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« on: <01-03-11/1501:48> »
I understand that vehicle armor is added to personal armor in most cases (called shots on passengers and the like). However, in the case of area effect weapons, ramming and autofire, it's far less clear. These are treated in a separate paragraph (at least in my printing) and it's unclear whether or not vehicle armor should be applied. What's more, I can see an argument that armor should apply for autofire (after all, each bullet still has to penetrate the vehicle), but maybe not for ramming/crashing (it's the transfer of kinetic energy that gets you, and armor probably won't really help there), and maybe half for Area Effects (how much protection from a concussive shockwave is a windshield, really?) The problem I see is that you can have a rigger layering armor (because what does he care if he can't move), jumping into drones as he sits in his armored car. He might end up with 12 or 15 points of armor, pretty easily. At that point, he's neigh invulnerable, while his recoilless drones rain down full auto with their ammo drums on anything in the world.

Nomad Zophiel

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« Reply #1 on: <01-03-11/1509:08> »
12-15 armor isn't that much when going against full auto weapons. Remember that on average every three armor is one hit taken away from DV. Even with just one net hit, a full auto assault rifle has a DV of around 15. That 15 armor will only soak up 5 or so. Its not hard for non-stupid NPC's to figure out that the killer drones are being controlled from the armored mobile command post and target it, or just blow out the tires and run away.

Chaemera

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« Reply #2 on: <01-03-11/1719:42> »
I don't call layering the armor like that a "problem". I call it staying alive while he does his job.

Remember, to rig effectively, he's in VR & probably HotSiming it. That means he has to rely entirely on soaking damage if he's caught in a crossfire. He doesn't know it if someone slips a grenade into the passenger compartment of his van.

It also means that if the enemy team has a hacker (and if they see drones, they'll hire one quick if they don't have one already and can afford the nuyen), then he probably has Black IC to unleash on the rigger. That's real world damage and distracts him from the job of rigging. If he's hotsiming and jumped in, when the drone takes damage, he soaks damage, too.

So no, I don't see where the problem with him being relatively secure from attacks originating outside the car comes from.

As to whether or not the rigger gets vehicle armor in addition to his own for ramming, full-auto and area effects, it looks like the answer is vague.

The passage is:

Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 171, Damage and Passengers
If an attack is made against passengers, make a normal Attack Test, but the passengers are always considered to be under Good cover (though the Blind Fire modifier may apply to the attacker as the situation dictates.) Passengers attemptint to defend an attack inside a vehicle suffer a -2 dice pool modifier to their dodge, since tehy are somewhat limited in movement. Additionally, the passengers gain protection from the vehicle's chassis, adding the Armor of the vehicle to any personal armor the characters are wearing. Called shots may be used to circumvent one armor or the other but not both.
In the case of ramming, full-auto and area-effect attacks, both passengers and vehicles resist the damage equally.

Now, reading that, I'm led to believe that you don't add vehicle armor for the three you're interested in. It doesn't spell it out, but the way the section is written implies that vehicle armor is only granted to the passenger if the passenger is specifically targeted.
But, frankly, I think it's nonsense to suggest that being in a vehicle shouldn't help you survive any of those three. The vehicle still catches some of the lead in a full-auto attack and the blast/ram still loses kinetic energy as it travels the frame of the car to you, the passenger. The wording of the section doesn't specifically preclude this option, either, since that last sentence doesn't end "resist the damage normally". Rather, it's a statement that the attack targets both simultaneously, and therefore, both have to resist the damage.

I'd give him the armor, a smart GM is already hard enough on riggers.
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