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21
Rules and such / Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Last post by Senko on (14:37:39/10-17-17) »
As reaver said if you start saying the spell can fix damage but not deliberate damage you run into huge problems and not just with things like shooting holes in something a lot of objects even today require "deliberate" damage to work much less to be aesthetically appealing. Lets take a painting is the paint used to make it going to be fixed when you cast the spell on it after a leak causes it to get water damaged, what if its cut or part of its burnt away? When does that painting become just a blank canvas again if your saying that the spell fixes deliberate damage? Or take the car shooting lets say it was a go ganger who's art form is to express things with bullet holes? That is they don't just shoot holes in the car but shoot in a specific pattern? Spray painting  your house is that deliberate damage and if not why would the spell remove the graffiti but not the original coat of paint you put on? If it doesn't remove the graffiti why would it remove writing from a piece of paper?

EDIT
What if for the sake of argument you set the house on fire then put it out to get rid of the graffiti. Is that deliberate damage so it can't be undone, does it restore the house with unpainted wood, wood painted the colour it was when you bought the house, wood painted the colour you used because you hated the original one or wood with the graffiti intact?
For me it'd restore with the graffiti as the houses intended state is to be a painted house but it can't distinguish between your deliberate painting of it as yellow or the deliberate patterns of the graffiti.
Same with anything else it'll restore rust, water damage, fire damage, cutting but if someone paints a beard and moustache on the Mona Lisa it won't help because it can't distinguish between the original painting and the vandalism.
22
Rules and such / Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Last post by Reaver on (14:32:45/10-17-17) »
 Isn't me unloading a gun into your engine block deliberate damage?

This is the problem. When start trying to add words or imply meanings to things... Everything can be twisted a bit to fit your ideal standard.

Not every spell has a great use all the time. In fact, many spells have a singular or very specific usage. (Doesn't stop people from trying things that spells were never intended for.).


Play carefully with wording and intent...
23
Rules and such / Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Last post by Kiirnodel on (14:28:22/10-17-17) »
If the Heal spell doesn't remove tattoos, then the Fix spell wouldn't remove stains/inks.

If the material removed to form the engraving isn't present, the Fix spell can't fix it.

None of these things are considered damage to the object in the first place (structurally speaking). And they wouldn't be recorded as damage on a condition monitor for the object.


If a piece of a page is missing, or has been burned away/shot or anything like that, the Fix spell would repair the damage. But magic isn't smart, it couldn't know how the writing is supposed to be, so it either wouldn't be restored or would come back jumbled (depending on how it was damaged).
If you tear up a paper, you can use the Fix spell to make it whole again, but I would say you probably need to puzzle it back together in the right order first (otherwise it would come back as an abstract piece of artwork).


"Damage" from age or chemical changes in the object are debatable, so it would depend on the GM (and likely the individual situation). If something has become old and "brittle" I would say there is nothing that needs fixing (yet). A reinforce spell would be more appropriate in that sort of situation. On the other hand, if a metal device has started to rust through, I could see that as damage in need of repair...
It's all very subjective.
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Rules and such / Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Last post by Senko on (14:20:19/10-17-17) »
I had to give this one some thought and I  find that in the end I'd allow both examples of fix mainly because if you do start going with it restores deliberate damage you start opening a big can of worms. Why does it remove the writing from papyrus scrolls as deliberate damage but not the carvings from the tablet that is much more obvious deliberate damage. How about paint on a broken bookshelf or a ruin wall. What if you cast it on an elaborately carved pillar that's cracked do you remove the carving? For the metal plaque what if rather than being cast in that shape it was stamped, clothing that's been dyed a particular colour/patter, computer chips which I believe are etched, even a door which starts off as one panel then has a hole cut for the handle/lock?

If you start saying it fixes deliberate use as damage you run into a lot of problems and come back to making the spell largely useless for its intended purpose. I'd treat the object as being restored to their intended state as it were. So an unused diary is restored to new condition and a used diary doesn't lose the writing in it. It exists as a used diary thus when you cast fix on it to restore the water damage you don't remove that filled out part. However after thinking about this I think I'd require more hits to restore something that was missing parts of itself as opposed to one that is just in poor condition. That is you need more hits to restore a burnt piece of paper than you do one in good condition and maybe more still for a burnt piece of paper with writing on it as opposed to one that's blank although I'm still thinking about that.
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Rules and such / Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Last post by Spooky on (14:13:45/10-17-17) »
But the engraving is "damage", just like ink on a page is "damage". A metal plaque with raised letters, however, was made in that shape, and thus would restore to that.
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Thanks for that info, Wyrm, the Denver books are about the only substantial source for such an entity, and not something i have read.
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Rules and such / Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Last post by SunRunner on (08:33:23/10-17-17) »
It would have limited archaeological applications. Papyrus scrolls would be fixed so you have a nice fresh sheet of Papyrus that happens to be blank, assuming enough hits were rolled as I would probably increase the difficulty due to age. Now engraved stone tablets or metal plaques would get fixed right up with enough hits, same for hieroglyphic carvings on a wall.
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Nnnnno.  I agree that the Spirit of a City is going to be utterly unsuited for most applications, but mainly in the 'using a Thor shot to kill a pesky mosquito' sense.  The concept of the Spirit of a City being 'fragmented' and 'so other' ... well, while it's an interesting thought, and in your game that may work, but for how Shadowrun has been stated 'to work, it isn't really correct.  The fact that this exact thing was not only successfully accomplished in the 21st century, but done so at the same exact instant is part of the official metaphysical explanation as to how and why Denver became a fractured city - a simultaneous summoning of the City's Spirit (Zebulon) sundered it into several fragments, which is what Ghostwalker was doing for those first months in Denver, 'spirit-hunting' to put that Spirit back together again.

Every city has a 'core self-image'.  If you want some place to start, start with their best-known nickname.  The Big Apple.  The City of Brotherly Love.  The Mile-High City.  Windy City.  The Emerald City.  New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, Denver, Seattle.  Evolve from there: Seattle, especially in SR, is an outpost of civilization in a 'low-tech' area, a city under siege, the only city on the West Coast that's still UCAS amidst elven and Native American nations.  It's also almost the only city in North America that has such an intense megacorporate focus on it; EVERY Big 10 (and a lot of other AAs) have a major structure in the area; even S-K has focus in Seattle, though they don't admit to it per se.  It's the high-tech wild west, cybernetic cowboys vs. shaman-mystic indians.

Despite its gaping wounds in Redmond and Puyallup, the Seattle Metroplex is an intensely vibrant city with virtually one thing on its mind: success.  Despite its history and age, it is young, intense, growing, eager to seize new opportunities, develop new ideas, constantly striving to create and break out and be the single most important city in the world.  It wants to be New Mecca.

As a consequence, it DOES have a cumulative sense of drive, destiny, desire, and - yes - concern about 'most of the rest of reality', specifically the city of which it is the Spirit.  And yes, there are vastly easier paths to take.  But if you're the GM, and you have a group of NPCs that are off their rocker ... can you think of a better way to poison the entire town's essence than to turn the Spirit of the City toxic?




29
The Spirit of a City, would likely be utterly unsuited for most applications, aside from massive scale chaos/destruction or a rambling history lesson. An entity formed from the collective astral impression of a major city would likely be fragmented and so other as to render most attempts at communication/calling impossible. Something like the Borg Collective but with no driving goal. Massive, hyper-complex, but dosen't give 1 fuck about most of the rest of reality.  Unless your deeply off your rocker, one would likely be aware easier paths. 
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Rules and such / Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Last post by legionof1 on (02:30:57/10-17-17) »
I would be inclined to allow both examples. Something that has been sealed/buried in some fashion probably has most of its substance physically present, just not in the original form/shape.

However it would depend on the quality of the sealing/burial. Something buried in the dirt without protection will lose substance to insects, earth movement, water, etc. Something in a tomb or container intended for preservation would not.   
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